Living A Full Life

How Your Environment Shapes Immunity and Health: Insights from Dr. Charles Akle

• Full Life Chiropractic • Season 3 • Episode 42

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Your immune system isn't just a shield against disease—it's your body's secret weapon for healing, maintenance, and even mental wellbeing. Dr. Charles Akle, with over 50 years of medical experience ranging from surgical oncology to transplantation, reveals the extraordinary hidden powers of immunity that modern medicine is only beginning to understand.

The conversation takes us on a fascinating journey through the interconnected web of immunity, from surprising revelations about the brain-gut axis to groundbreaking cancer treatments. Did you know that 35% of your brain consists of immune cells? Or that simply looking at sick people triggers measurable immune responses in your body? These discoveries are transforming how we understand health and disease.

Dr. Akle shares compelling research comparing city dwellers to rural residents, explaining why urbanites suffer more from chronic inflammation and stress. This environmental disconnect—what he calls missing our "old friends" in nature—has profound implications for everything from allergies to mental health. The solution isn't complicated: reconnecting with natural environments, embracing dietary diversity, and understanding the critical role of sleep in immune maintenance.

The most practical insights come from Dr. Akle's evidence-based recommendations on fiber intake (aim for 30g daily), the benefits of Mediterranean-style eating, and why we should reconsider our approach to supplements. His perspective challenges the "more is better" mentality while offering accessible ways to support your body's natural healing abilities—what he playfully calls your "Wolverine factor."

Ready to harness the full potential of your immune system? Listen now to discover how this ancient biological network might be the key to addressing modern health challenges from cancer to post-viral syndromes and beyond. Your body already possesses remarkable healing abilities—it's time to learn how to activate them.

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Speaker 1:

Welcome to another podcast of Living a Full Life. We have a very special guest this week, Dr Charles Ackle, out from the UK. Thanks for being with us today, Doc.

Speaker 2:

Great, great pleasure.

Speaker 1:

Yes, we were talking in the green room and you've got a long history in the medical field. You've seen a lot of things and today we're going to talk about the all-encompassing world of the immune system field. You've seen a lot of things and today we're going to talk about the all-encompassing world of the immune system and I'm so grateful that you're here because I've been saying the immune system on and off, for I think every third podcast. The immune system comes into play when we talk about health and wellness. And here you are, in the trenches in disease, in pathology, for for years you're only 49 years old, but even all these years where this has been happening, you've been doing this and I'm just grateful for your insights in this and your experience. So thanks for being here.

Speaker 2:

Thank you very much. I wish I were 49 years old but I'm reasonably well-preserved. I mean, I started medical school in 1970, which is 55 years ago, so it's a long long time. But I was always interested in immunology and the reason was, of course, in the 70s it was about kidney and liver transplantation. That was what it was all about and the fact that you reject donor organs and how to deal with rejection, and we got lots of stories. We could do another whole podcast on that. And I worked on the transplantation of pancreatic islets these are the bits of the pancreas that deal with sugar metabolism and diabetes. And that was where my surgical interest. But basically I was a red blooded surgeon. I treated cancer, mainly gastrointestinal cancer and gastrointestinal diseases, and we never really understood the full impact of the immune system. And secondly, more recently we've now begun to understand the role of the microbiome as an interaction and this whole thing of the gut-brain axis, and I'll try and clarify that in a minute.

Speaker 2:

But the immune system is the fundamental of all our living structures. If you think about it, it's one of the oldest preserved entities. In most organisms there's an immune activation. It defends us, so it fights off infection, whether it's viral, bacterial. Whatever it repairs the damage that occurs if you cut yourself. The immune system is what repairs you and heals it and sorts it all out. Not very well in man, I mean. If we were all axolotls, you know the little Mexican salamander. You can cut its tail off and it'll grow a new one, or a leg. It'll grow a new leg. We're getting there. You know the day will come when you'll be able to grow a new leg. But that's all about immunology. That's the immunology that does that.

Speaker 2:

And then there's the maintenance, and the maintenance is something that's very interesting because you need to maintain any good set of machinery. You know, if you don't maintain your car, it falls to bits fairly quickly, and so if you don't maintain yourself, you will degenerate and basically rot. And whether that's not cleaning up your brain processes when you're asleep during the night, which is part of what the immune system does. And that's why sleep is so important, because that's your downtime, when the immune system can get on and work and clean up all the rubbish that's accrued there. And that link between repair, maintenance and defence is absolutely fundamental and that's why it's so complicated and there are so many different engineers, soldiers, designers, and I always think it's amazing anybody survives and things don't go wrong. It's that complicated and what we try as human beings is to try and reduce it to reduct, reductioid absurdum, which is, you know, to an absurd level. So if, if one of something works, 10 of something works 10 times better doesn't happen that way.

Speaker 2:

And I remember, um, my interest in, in in this aspect of the gut brainbrain axis really occurred because I operated on somebody years ago, saved him and he was a billionaire and he thought I had something to do with it and didn't realize it was all to do with his immune system and the higher authority, not me. And I took this money to a professor of cancer oncology in a major university in the UK and said look, here's, here's 15 million dollars. That's what it was. Then he said oh, wow, wow, thank you. This is for cancer research, yeah, but you have to look at the immunology of cancer now. Just to put that in context, that was in 2009, only 15 years ago, and his response and that of the other doctors and consultants who were with him and professors was what's immunology got to do with cancer? It doesn't work.

Speaker 2:

And I nearly hit the floor because of my experience with transplantation. We knew, for example, that with transplanted organs, if you transplanted enough material from the donor, that with transplanted organs, if you transplanted enough material from the donor and there was a little cancer in the skin, for example, of the recipient, the donor cells would kill the cancer. So I knew from personal experience that the sort of graft versus host reaction that you get is actually beneficial for killing off cancers, and actually a lot of the way that that happens is probably a variation of that graft-versus-hertz reaction. So that was I thought, well, look, I'll go and do it myself. And then I started studying it, which is why I haven't retired. I mean, I'm coming up to 73 years of age but I'm still going strong and the brain's still there somewhere, I think, and it's the cancer that has always driven me. But it's just the tip of an iceberg. All the other things that follow well-being, coping, etc. Come from that.

Speaker 2:

So we started working on a natural way of maintaining and hosting your immune system and then actually an organism that would help to trigger a cancer response. We started originally with BCG. Bcg stands for Bacillus Calmet-Guerin, very French, and it's the vaccine for tuberculosis, right, and it's been used for decades to try and boost the immune system so that it will then attack a cancer or help some other immune-related condition. And do you know what? The first dose works quite well. I mean. As a student I remember injecting malignant melanoma rather horrible skin cancer and putting BCG around it, and the first time you did it you got a terrific response. Second time not so good. Third time you made it worse, because BCG, like tuberculosis, is a bad boy.

Speaker 2:

You know they're street gang type people, they're not decent mycobacteria. Whereas we're surrounded by mycobacteria in our environment, in the soil, in the earth, there's probably 180 other species minimum of mycobacteria which are entirely benign and which trigger and tune regularly our immune response. We get constant exposure and we get a constant upgrade in what's going on to our immune system. Did you know worms also do that? Infections with worms have that same effect. I had this interest in ulcerative colitis, a rather nasty gut problem, and worms will actually help Crohn's disease and ulcerative colitis for a while. And trying to persuade patients to eat worms is not so easy. But they'll take the mycobacteria. So there's an interesting piece of work that goes on in that way, which we won't get to. But the point is that your natural environment is critical in terms of stimulating your immune system and it almost certainly does it through the microbiome in your gut.

Speaker 2:

So one of the pieces of work we did we were doing lung cancer study and giving this back to him. We didn't know how the immune system worked in cancer. To tell you the truth, this was many years ago 10 years ago and that's a long time. In immunological, immuno-oncology and what the main consultant, mary O'Brien at the Marsden, which is, like our MD Anderson, you know, one of the top memorials, whatever equivalent what they noticed was that the patients who received the mycobacterium to boost their immunity in lung cancer were happy, they coped, they had resilience, they didn't get infections in the winter. You couldn't blind the study because the minute the patient walked into the room you could tell that they were on it. They didn't live particularly any longer because we didn't understand how the thing worked and the adjuvant effect and all that which we can go into, but probably not in huge detail. But this was extraordinary and this prompted Professor Chris Lowry, who is based in Boulder, colorado, is a professor of neuroscience, brilliant scientist, to look and see. Well, why are these people so happy? And in his experimental models, which was rats and mice. They gave them the mycobacterium and, sure enough, what happened was they got a boost in their serotonergic activity. So they started secreting a lot more serotonin into the brain. And serotonin, as you well know, people know it as the happy molecule. It's the thing that gives you, you know, and it's one factor.

Speaker 2:

Further study over the years by Chris and all sorts of extraordinary people Stefan Reber et cetera in Germany have shown that it's mediated through control of immune responses in the brain. That it's mediated through control of immune responses in the brain. I mean, even five years ago, most doctors would tell you the brain hasn't got an immune system, which is stupid really, when you think. I mean, doctors are supposed to be very clever, but as a doctor I can be as rude as I like about them. They really can be very, very entrenched in their ideas. 35% of the brain is made up of immune cells.

Speaker 2:

How can you tell me that there's no immune system going on in the brain? It's idiotic, isn't it? You know, whoever put it there put it there for a reason. So the point is that it's the control of immunity and inflammation in the brain that then improves the whole business of the mood and control and everything works a lot better. In the same way that if you get inflammation triggering somewhere else, it affects the brain. Bad stress to the brain causes inflammation and affects everything else. I know you're an expert on COVID and other things. You've only got to have a dose of bad flu and you feel like somebody's hit you with a you know sledgehammer right or baseball bat. You feel awful.

Speaker 1:

I like how you highlighted the immune system from the brain. I mean, people always said the brain controls the immune system. But in all, a newer piece of research for me. You know I'm in my 40s now but they've just found a new sacral plexus and the dental industry has found a new dental facial plexus, micro plexus, through micro scanning that we can do and they're like what are all these nerves?

Speaker 1:

So we're going to have all these new nerves labeled soon with all the new modern names. But we're still learning more. And it's always been said that the brain controls the immune system, even though, when we tally up the number of cells, the mesenteric system is larger than the brain, which is unbelievable. So which one is the brain? Is it the gut or is?

Speaker 2:

it, the brain? They both are. The truth is, you're talking about an entire organism. I mean, it's like a jellyfish if you can break it up into individual little polyps, but if you put the whole together, the sum of the parts are greater. But here's a fascinating piece of work that came out literally three or four weeks ago and was published in Nature. I don't make these things up. I don't believe in touchy-feely science. I'm a hard-nosed scientist. I want data, and there's a paper came out in Nature showing that if you look at sick people, you boost your immune system. How extraordinary is that. Did you know that? So what they did was they put goggles and showed avatars of sick people and what have you? And they measured the immune responses, particularly in the gut, and boom up they go. So all you have to do with the brain is look at somebody who's sick and your own system begins to trigger the defense process. Well, how fantastic is that?

Speaker 1:

right. Is that why nurses and hospitals are all so healthy? I mean, that's all they do all day, right?

Speaker 2:

Well, but that's probably because they have compassion, they get it and say, okay, I'm going to deal with this. And, by the way, there's a difference between acute and chronic inflammation which we need to maybe address. And I suppose the best way of looking at that is the experiment that Stefan Reber and Chris Lowry did, which was to look at city boys against country lads. And the city boys had never had any exposure to animals, didn't have pets or anything like that. They were basically working in offices all day. The guys in the farms, they were working with animals or cowboys, whatever, and what they did was they took these two separate cohorts, 20 in each, and they did a psychological stress test. It's called the TRIO stress test, but basically you stand them up in front of a couple of people with white coats and you scare them. You ask them stupid questions, questions, and they have to do calculations in their head. They get a bit flustered and you measure their immune system uh responses, the basic ones, il6 and tnf, alpha and all those cortisol, adrenaline. So you do the basic stuff and what's extraordinary is that the country lads um, they get a big spike in adrenaline and everything else. Their immune responses shoot up. But once the stress is over, within a matter of hours, they're normal. When you do the city boys, they shoot up nothing like as high and they take a lot longer to go back to normal. In fact, they're probably always slightly elevated, and that's the difference between an acute response and chronic response. So the way you can think of this is when we were animals, you know, developing on the savannah, if you like, in Africa, if a lion came to get you, you had an acute response and you either sat there and got eaten or you ran like hell. It's probably why some african runners are the greatest runners on the planet, because there is one who actually used to get lions to chase him there's, I think it was kipikano or somebody. He actually used to say I had to go and herd my, my parents, goats and things, and the lion would come through and boy could I run. Okay, and so they. So that's acute and there's a beginning, middle and an end to that, and when it's finished you get on with your life. The problem is if you then move to living in a forest and behind every tree there's a bear, and I gather there's a big problem with bears in Canada, america at the moment attacking people, but it's saying behind every tree there could be a bear. And every time you think, oh my God, there's going to be a bear, oh, there's a bear, oh there's a bear. You never relax, you never settle down and become normal. So you become chronically inflamed because your brain affects it. And this is fascinating to me because it shows that living, modern living in an urban jungle with concrete, no fresh air, no fresh spaces, no exposure to animals, is not doing us any good. And the food that we eat is not ideal in the rural environment Sorry, the urban environment. The rural environment is better if you're eating decent food. So this acute versus chronic inflammation is actually very important.

Speaker 2:

But what I told you about looking at a sick person and triggering an immune response is extraordinary. The counterpart to this is that again within the last two years, there have been studies again published in major journals which show that when you treat malignant melanoma this is particularly malignant melanoma if you treat malignant melanoma with immune therapy, about 50% of the patients are cured, which is fantastic, because I used to operate on malignant melanomas and we were lucky to get 5% five-year survival with the advanced case. Now lucky to get 5% five-year survival with the advanced case. Now they've got a 50% five-year survival. It's fantastic, but 50% don't respond. Why so? Some clever people? Doctors took feces, they did a fecal transplant, a microbial transplant from responders those who'd benefited and put it into the non-responders. And 30% of those responded. I read that study.

Speaker 1:

I remember that.

Speaker 2:

You remember that study? Yeah, and if you take it from healthy people, a healthy donor, you get a 50% response rate. Well to me, that sort of works in the other direction. They feel better, their immune response is restored. Well to me, that sort of works in the other direction. They feel better, their immune response is restored. And so fecal transplantation is again another big interest of mine. It can become a fad, it has to be done very carefully.

Speaker 2:

But when you consider how important your microbial milieu and it's to do with diversity, uh and, and that every day a paper comes out saying this bacteria does that and that bacteria does this and that, I, I, I think my experience in life is that, um, when you see that you know that there's something not quite right. Um, if you look at the tube map in in, I think, there's the metro, you would call it in New York, or the underground in London you have a tube map with lots of stations all linked by railways, and if you knock out one station, people just take another route. And it's the same in biological systems. Biological systems are like a map and they all cross over. If you hit one system only, eventually that system will repair itself and fix itself. You have to knock out the key stations, and the typical example was the terrorist attack in London in 2005, where Oxford Circus, which is a very central underground station, was knocked out Within a matter of days. The whole system was working perfectly well because people just went around it. You need to knock out the big stations, and that's the same in cancer, to some extent in autoimmune disorders, aging processes that we talk about, and you know it's like supplements. We want this supplement, that supplement, the other supplements.

Speaker 2:

I have a fairly dim view of a lot of supplements, except two or three. Vitamin D, I think, has got enough data behind it to support its effect and I think I have to tell you it's the only one I take of that. Of those vitamins, I do not take vitamin E, for example, because, again, people think, well, if one vitamin is good, 10 must be better. Vitamin E was shown to increase the risk of prostate cancer. This is paper back in 2011,. We've known this, so you need to be careful. But vitamin D, undoubtedly, I think, is a good thing, so long as you don't overdo it. You mustn't overdose because you can injure yourself. I like the omega-3s. I know you've spoken extensively about how important the omega factors are. I think they are relevant, I think they're good for the brain, but, again, you should be trying to get these with your natural diet, not necessarily having to take your, your fiber, your, your, your, your pills, and fiber, by the way, being a very important factor.

Speaker 2:

We've, we've forgotten about the word supplements.

Speaker 1:

I think we've lost the definition of what that means. It's to supplement a healthy diet. A healthy diet and I think you know, you're in Europe they do well better with the food there. Here it's tough running a practice here, and in Canada, and my parents being immigrants from Italy and Greece, it's a vast difference when it comes to diet. So a supplement here, the very American mentality is well, if one's good for me, 175 is even better, and that's the issue you know.

Speaker 1:

So what? Now we're getting into some substance here for the listeners. Well, this is fantastic information. What do I do when? What do I do? Do I need a fecal transplant? Do I have to go to my neighbor's house? What you know, what they're all thinking, all these things and what we see undoubtedly from the young kids that we take care of all the way from the age of four and up, is dysbiosis of the gut. Everyone is coming back because we do stool testing, we do fecal testing, that's how we get our numbers, and it's dysbiosis all over the place and we tell them if we don't fix the bottom part of the glacier, the bottom part of sorry, the iceberg, this tip of the symptoms that you're coming in, I just don't even know if we're going to get there.

Speaker 2:

Exactly, and it's more of an issue because of these things like post-viral syndrome. Again, it's something I learned in my practice that it was very unfashionable 30, 40 years ago. You'd see somebody get a viral illness and unless it was something like hepatitis B or whatever, or everybody would say, oh well, they always get sick for months afterwards. Afterwards, the medical profession did not think of post-viral syndrome. Whether you want to call it fibromyalgia, you want to call it, you know it has many, many, many different names, but basically it's a post-infective yuck. You just feel awful, you get the sort of arthritic pains. It's all very nonspecific and very difficult to measure because you're not, they're not measuring the, the immune responses. If you measure the correct immune responses, you, you pick it up immediately. And so this business of the supplements and things. I think you're right.

Speaker 2:

I think in america part of the problem is that the fast food system which was born in a way in america has not helped the population, because there are problems with obesity which lead to diabetes, which lead to the increase in cancer. You know, americans should be the longest living, healthiest people on the planet and they're not, and part of that is because of this business of not looking after themselves with the diet, and rubbish in, rubbish out is what it is. So I think ultra processed foods of the wrong kind. And, by the way, is what again? So I think ultra processed foods of the wrong kind, and, by the way, I'm not against all ultra processed foods. Some ultra processed foods are fantastic and if you think of you you mentioned your greek and italian ancestry some of the fermented food, the yogurts uh, you know the germans with their sauerkraut, the kimchi, all these other things, these, these are all processed foods and actually they're very, very good for you. But the Mediterranean diet is.

Speaker 2:

I don't think there's any question that things like olive oil, fresh fruits, seasonal vegetables, all that sort of stuff is good for you because it feeds your microbiome. And fiber, which I touched on earlier, is one thing that is very missing, particularly in the Western diet, because that is the food which most of the bacteria in our gut depend on, and they produce all sorts of things that we need. A lot of vitamins, for example, are produced by bacteria. There's even material that is very like Wegovy. You know the SGP1. It's a diabetic thing, I know it is, but people are using it for weight loss, etc. You produce that naturally if you've got the right milieu, the right environment. So farm your microbiome is something I teach, and I think that the way to do that is to try and look at your food and eat sensibly and I'm sure you've got several podcasts where you've gone through it in great detail. But there's a lot out there.

Speaker 2:

But fiber, probiotics, mediterranean type diet, these are all big factors. If you must take a supplement, for sure vitamin D, and it's got to be taken all year round, as, again, I think you've taught. I think the omega-3s are very good. I like natural honey, your local honey, and you should feed your children peanut butter and natural honey because then they won't get allergies. They'll have exposure to the local bacteria and antigens and things that are around them, the pollen that is around them. I like garlic, I like but that's the Mediterranean thing, if you like, on it. I like a bit of red wine. I have to tell you Again, that's probably a bit naughty, but again, in moderation. It's that business that you know, half a glass of wine or quarter of a bottle of wine a day is going to be really good for you. Two bottles is going to kill you, right? I mean, it's just going to be reasonable, just like anything.

Speaker 1:

Now, when it comes to fiber, 30 grams of fiber per day should be continuous throughout the day. So a scoop of Metamucil is not fiber. That's not how we get our fiber in, and the average American gets about six grams of fiber per day. So I'm just giving you some numbers there and the listeners I mean you can track this on all the apps now. You just put in a daily record your diet for three days, watch what happens, look where you're over getting and where you're under getting, and you'll see fiber quite low. And it's because we're not eating our fibrous vegetables and our fibrous fruits there you go, and and that's the point that there's our new trend.

Speaker 2:

There are two new trends that seem to be happening in in our business. One is, uh, fiber maxing that people are now beginning to take almost too much fiber, which isn't necessarily good for again, it's that business of you know overdoing things. But 50, 30 grams fantastic, 50, okay, but more than that probably you're not doing it right. So you need to look at fiber. Metamucil is okay, even if it's only to show you what can be achieved in terms of comfort to the bowels. All my patients with piles or irritable bowel syndrome all benefited from having some fiber for the gut to work on. But ultimately you need the natural stuff and if you can't tolerate wheat because you might be wheat intolerant, there's oat fiber. There's a zillion kinds of cellulosic material that you can take naturally without having to worry about it, naturally, without having to worry about it. The other thing, by the way, thinking of the brain is I just saw this the other day AI psychosis, as we're sort of free ranging artificial intelligence psychosis, and that is that people now are living in a very strange world. There are some people who seem to have made friends and fallen in love with their chatbots and can't live without them, and I think the label is AI psychosis and they are in all sorts of trouble because they don't get out, they don't sleep, they don't. They've got blue light shining all over them during the night, They've got screen fatigue and it's not doing them any good. I bet you, if you were to measure their immune responses, they'd be absolutely atrocious. And again, people need to take control of their own lives and that means your diet, your mood, your sleep. Now, pollution is another thing I know you've talked about. Pollution is a huge problem and probably not a great deal that we as individuals can do other than not to smoke, for example, and avoid chemicals. These are obvious things. But air pollution is a big problem in cities. Move to the country Exercise, A lack of exercise is a problem, and particularly in a country atmosphere. So in Scandinavia again you may have read the Scandinavians now have, particularly in Finland, in the children's playgrounds at school they have forest material, all the spare forest leaves and trees. They chunter up and put them on the ground of the playground to the mud and soil and wood and leaf material, and you know the effect on those kids in terms of their allergic responses and mood is fantastic. It's something like a 30 to 40 percent benefit in this. So go for a walk, get a dog I mean, if you have an animal, that interrelationship with your microbiome is actually also very beneficial.

Speaker 2:

Don't be too clean. Wash your hands. Of course you don't want to be handling dog poo and stuff with the children. Clean your hands, but on the other hand, don't worry too much if your kid rolls around in the mud and gets a bit dirty or whatever. These are natural ways of trying to boost your immunity. Whatever. These are natural ways of trying to boost your immunity. And it's the immune system that is your secret weapon. That's your Wolverine factor. I think I can show my age. I know about Wolverine. I love Wolverine because he's got this healing factor right. So think of the immune system as a slightly slower version Don't do this at home, you know, but it's a slower version of the Wolverine factor. And then you have a bit of an idea of the power of the immune system that already exists within us. You need to make use of it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, thanks, dr Ackle. I mean just shifting the consciousness towards the greater reality of what health is and where it really comes from. That's been my mission is as doctors, in any particular field, it's our job to take apart the machine and become very hyper focused in the one system that we're specialized in, and it's very easy to just turn that into a machine of parts, and we're not. We don't work that way with. We're not, we're not.

Speaker 2:

I'm a great believer in the natural environment and dealing with things naturally, and that walk in the woods and exposure to your environmental old friends, as we call them, is why we developed imi. Imi is a capsule containing olive oil, which is good for you, and it has this mycobacteria called mycobacterium aurum that we we have, and it's it works orally as an immunoadjuvant, an immuno stimulator, if you like to try and to try and replace what is missing when you don't go for your walk in the woods and you not got exposure to your mud and and environment. If you look at our website, imico, uh, you'll, you'll be able to find out where you can get hold of some. It's a dollar a day, which is, we think, affordable.

Speaker 2:

We, we, I don't like the idea of my fellow human being having to pay a lot of money for what is a a natural process that they should have, but it's the only way we can supply this material. Our experience with dealing with cancer and other agents shows us that this stuff actually can work extremely well. You've got to keep taking it because you need to have constant contact with your environment and stimulation, so that's really the only other supplement I take. In fact, it's the only supplement I always take and I recommend it.

Speaker 1:

Makes sense and make sure to go check that out, and they can just go to imico, right?

Speaker 2:

Exactly Not com or co anything else. Yeah, it's really easy. There's some really good blogs, Not as good as yours, but there's plenty of information there.

Speaker 1:

No, it's great.

Speaker 2:

That's absolutely wonderful.

Speaker 1:

Thanks for sharing your wisdom with us. This was phenomenal and maybe cross paths again.

Speaker 2:

I hope you'll invite me again. There's so much to I mean, I've been around for so long. There's so much to discuss and I hope the message got through. Keep it simple, keep it healthy.

Speaker 1:

Thanks, Dr Eccle.

Speaker 2:

God bless.

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Dr. Enrico Dolcecore

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