Grief, AI, And A Way Forward

Grief doesn’t wait for office hours, and it rarely plays by rules. We sit down with John Cammer, founder of Guardian Angels, to unpack an AI-guided journaling tool that helps people navigate loss with structure, compassion, and strong clinical guardrails. What began as a personal reckoning—after losing close friends and carrying years of silence—became a mission to give others a safe, interactive space to process pain, name feelings, and redefine the bonds that endure.

John walks us through the evolution from a risky idea (spoofed texts from a loved one) to a responsible design rooted in Warden’s four tasks of mourning. Listeners will hear how the tool builds a persona from your own memories—relationship details, humor, shared moments—so prompts arrive in familiar language without pretending to be a voice from beyond. Instead of answers, it offers better questions and immediate, dialog-style feedback, turning journaling into an active practice that fits between therapy sessions and those 3 a.m. spikes when grief surges.

We dig into the ethics: why the product avoids voice cloning and avatars, how licensed therapists helped shape the framework, and where guardrails prevent invention or harmful suggestions. We also widen the lens beyond bereavement to ambiguous and anticipatory grief, divorce, estrangement, job loss, and more—spaces where interactive prompts and steady reflection can restore momentum. If you’ve ever wished for a map through the fog, this conversation lays out a practical path: accept the reality of the loss, process the pain, adjust to a changed life, and carry your person forward with intention.

Subscribe for more conversations at the intersection of mental health, technology, and everyday courage. If this helped you, share it with someone who’s grieving, leave a review to support the show, and tell us: what would a kinder journaling prompt ask you today?

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:45

Hey everyone, welcome to another podcast of Living a Full Life. We got a great guest this week, John Cammer from founder of Guardian Angels. This is an AI-based journal. Fascinating stuff. I'm going to let him run away with this. Thanks for being on the show.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Absolutely. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

Yeah. How did so how do you where did you start? How did you get into this?

Loss, Numbing, And The Search For Healing

SPEAKER_00 1:08

Uh well. That's that's a long answer. Um, but ultimately it was a bit, it was an accident. I uh I have probably you know too much experience in the field, um, which is kind of what ultimately led me to this. Uh I lost three of my closest friends, the first one 13 years ago to suicide, and then the la other two in the last couple of years.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Wow.

The First Idea: Messages From The Departed

Legal Hurdles And Authenticity

Prototyping With A Best Friend’s Memory

Release Through Response And Self‑Forgiveness

Ethics, Faith, And Responsible Design

From Necromancy Fears To Therapeutic Guardrails

Warden’s Tasks And Structured Prompts

How The Persona Is Built

What AI Really Does And Doesn’t

SPEAKER_00 1:37

Um, and that you know, my uh my MO for 12 years was run, hide, you know, bury it down because everyone else has their stuff. I certainly used my fair share of substances to uh to mask what I was actually feeling and avoid doing the real work that healing takes. That really, you know, it's a microcosm for life, right? The good stuff takes work. Uh, and that's you know, I think a lot of us are kind of fed this time heals all wounds fallacy. And so it made sense for me to just try my best to kick the can down the road as far as I could. Um that led to its own set of issues, but ultimately what happened was I I after having a conversation with my wife, I um I started down a path of trying to build something that would give people a limited measure of comfort from a lost loved one. And it started as hey, we're gonna spoof phone numbers and send you a text message from grandpa or whoever it is on your birthday that just says, Hey, I love you, I'm thinking about you, right? Because who wouldn't smile when they get that text? We all have those numbers still saved in our phone. Um, but what we quickly realized was that number one, while that's not expressly illegal, the telecoms don't look too kindly on it, and it's well within their rights to to block that behavior. Why? Because, well, we all get about 10 spam calls a day at this point, and that's what most people are doing when they spoke spam a phone number. They weren't gonna give little old me a uh a pass on that. So you know, the next hurdle was pretty clearly, well, if people res if this resonates with people, they're gonna want to interact with it. Um, and what do we do in that scenario? Because it has to feel authentic. If it doesn't feel authentic, then you know it does there's no point. And it was pretty clearly AI, but we have in order to scale it, but how do you make that feel comforting? How do you not make it feel like a robot on the other end that is cold and yes and no and black and white, right? And to do that, I sorry, in order to build something like that, I had really only my own personal experience to lean back on. So I built the first iteration, I trained the first the first one of these in the image of my best man at my wedding, uh, who, you know, I'm passed in on New Year's New Year's Eve of 2023. Um and I, you know, that one held a lot of guilt for me. I was not able to s to say a lot of things to him. I, you know, he did this thing for me, stood up on my wedding day, the happiest day of my life, and you know, told some stories about the the good times and the times that I wished he wouldn't have repeated and everything in between. And I fully anticipated doing the same for him. And I didn't get to, and I frankly, I spoke to him once in the seven months between my wedding and the day that he died. So for him to do that for me and for me to not find it important enough, you know, obviously I uh that's not a fair characterization, but you know, as life gets in the way of little things, but that's how I felt, and that weighed heavily. So I used him as this, you know, the guinea pig for this. And when I built it, I was able to say things that I wasn't able to say while he was alive. I was able to apologize, I was able to, you know, ask him about the accident. And while I'd tried similar things in therapy, the empty chair technique and writing the letter, right, which are fairly common in grief therapy, they never had the I never got a response. And in this case, the response that he gave me was what triggered the release, triggered the tears. I hadn't shed a tear in three years. I didn't think I was capable anymore. Uh, I was just a shell. I'd shut down. And so almost instantaneously the weight was lifted. Um, and that's not to say that you know, I was healed in that moment, but I was it put me in a place where I was curious, I was ready to do the work, I was ready to face it. I had permission finally to forgive myself, which was the first, you know, that's the prerequisite, right? Like that has to happen if you're gonna if you're gonna move forward. Um, so I you know, in in feeling that release, I I thought almost instantaneously that there's something here. This if this helped me in this way, this can help somebody else. Now, is that three people? Is that a million people? I don't know. But if it helps one person, then it's a screaming success in my mind. So off we set on trying to bring this thing to market. Uh, we've iterated a few times. It really started as kind of a nebulous like talk to your lost loved one and and work things out. There's a few problems with that. Um, you know, it started with the best of intentions, but you do kind of tiptoe up to that line of what's delusion and what's not, the black mirror fan, you know, fallacy not fallacy, but the black mirror kind of dystopian, like trying to talk to the dead and necromancy and all of the stuff that you know that goes along with that. I was I was getting messages saying this is the devil's work, and on one hand, that you know, for a religious person that may be 100% true. Um, but that wasn't what we were going for. So it was great feedback to get early on, uh, and and really cause us to think about how we wanted to do this. Because at the end of the day, if this isn't helping people, then it stops. You know, the moment that it hurts more than it helps, it stops. I fully believe there's more good to be had here than bad, but it needs to be developed responsibly. Uh, and there needs to be guardrails and there needs to be that foundation in therapy. Now we have taken we've worked with licensed therapists to build out the framework for how it operates. Um, you know, I have I have taken these steps to make sure that we are not doing things that are going to hurt people. And I believe that there is a space for a business here. Just that, you know, profit may not be the overriding motive. It's you know, it's a it's a nice benefit to a well-reasoned and executed plan to help people. Um so we are current in its current iteration, we have developed a series of structured journal prompts that follow Warden's four tasks of mourning, which is a tried and true therapeutic framework for addressing loss. Um, the so you build the persona, this your the which is the object of your grief, that's form-based, it's user-centric, it's what is your relationship or what was your relationship with this person? Um, not mine, not social media is none of that. It's it's what are your memories? How do you feel about them? How would you describe them? Because frankly, the rest of the world doesn't matter for that relationship. Um and that then becomes your guide for navigating this labyrinth of of emotions and feelings, and and and how does how do we get to a productive place and get our you know, regain our humanity after one of the worst experiences that we can have in this life, right? Losing someone close to us. So um it you you get prompted at different, you know, your desired inter interval. We have packages from three times a week to five times a week to every day, depending on how deep you want to get and how how intensive you want to attack this thing. Um and they are their your grief guide, your persona prompts you with these and you get immediate feedback. So it here's your journal prompt. It says it in that in the words of the person that you're talking to, you know, it kind of is tailored. And then when you respond, they respond back to you. So you can you can have those conversations, that feedback that helps you organize your thoughts to the point where all of a sudden you can kind of name what you're feeling, and you can you're in this place where, okay, I'm starting to understand how I'm feeling and why, so I can do something about it. Because that's the first step. You know, for so long, I was just sitting there like I don't know what to do. There was no starting place, there was no roadmap. There was it was, you know, I so I subscribe to the I'm just gonna sit here and wait. And time doesn't heal anything, it just lets you hide.

Choosing Chat Over Voice Or Avatars

Complementing Therapy, Not Replacing It

SPEAKER_01 11:37

Uh, you know, so so so this is a conversational AI bot that's been trained by you using psychology in mourning. And the responses are computed, of course, you know, by the conversational bot as it learns. Um, and I'm sure it's only getting better. The more that people use this, the more that you get responses from them, you're probably getting better results with all of them as well. Uh now I can see where people may look at this and be like, uh, that's not cool. But from a psychological perspective, I mean, this tool is not, there's nothing like it out there. I mean, you can go to therapy, you can go to grief counseling, you can go to all of the mental health options that are out there, which are which are great, um, but you're never gonna get a response back that's in the tone of a conversation with your inner self. Honestly, let's let's be honest, it's never gonna be with the person that's gone, but but with your inner self. And and that's interesting. Let's just talk about the good and the light in this first. Uh, that's really interesting. And that is a very, very useful tool. We can talk about how this can get out of hand later at the end, but but um so that I was just trying to trying to understand it, but maybe you can finish what I missed there on the on the AI portion on this, on the conversational portion on this. Um, many people don't realize that we've been using AI for over a decade. Uh, theory is AI on your phone. Alexa is AI on your phone. When you tell it to do something, it's giving you the response and what it thinks is going to be the best answer for you that you've trained it to do. So we've been using this forever GPS, Google Maps, it's all there. So we don't have to be scared of it. Um, and now what we're doing on the back end with the tools that we have in AI is we can actually train it. We can actually build these conversational bots to give FAQ questions and answers that are, you know, tailored, uh groomed, um, protected, you know, good answers that don't get out of hand. And I'm sure you'll get into that, but maybe you can dive a little bit deeper into the build of that. That way we can move forward with this conversation with a little more clarity because people are already. I was just listening to you, I'm like already thinking of all the the horrible things that could happen with this, but but let's keep the light in here. And did I get most of that? Is that how is that how you built it?

Under The Hood: Forms, Context, And Tone

Why Questions Heal More Than Answers

SPEAKER_00 13:59

Um kind of. So yeah, there's you bring up a couple of points that I wanted to hit on before I kind of move into that. So, number one, we built this specifically to be a complement to therapy, not to be not to replace therapy, not to, you know, this is a one tool in the broader tool belt. Yeah, um, so we're not we're not coming for anyone's job. We're we're trying to build the thing that fills in the gaps, right? So you can't call your therapist at 3 a.m. when grief tends to bite us, right? If you've lost someone, you have sat there and stared at the ceiling more than likely and been like, damn, now would be a good time to talk, right? And then we have functionality in here that allows you to export it, take it into start, you know, so that you have a starting point with your traditional therapist, right? So that's number one, uh, is it's very intentionally designed to be that tool. Um, I think the next thing that we hit on was the how we're building it. So in its current form, we it is it falls rides on top of the Chat GPT um backbone. And it is roughly 30, it's basically a form-based super prompt. So while right now we're in the process of implementing an agentic framework where it can it'll learn and and and train re you know and train itself more fine-tuned, but we're not there yet. So it's you fill in these, you know, the answers. Sorry, um, to the the questions, which are everything from what was your relationship with the person, how did you refer to each other, whether nicknames, you know, so it familiarizes it, how would you describe their humor, their speech? Um, there's even if you don't know how to describe those things, we have little prompts that will help you come up with the right words so that you can refine it. Um, share a few, you know, shared memories, shared interests. When did you first meet? You know, um, so it it gives it the context to respond to you in the way that you desire. And I think you brought up another really good point there, which was we're having a conversation with ourselves, right? What AI does, what um social media does, and they're demonized for it, but they just reflect you. You know, when people talk about the algorithm and on Facebook or Instagram, it's just giving you stuff that you want, whether you want to admit that you want those things or not, you are consuming the things that have triggered it to put those in your feet.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

Very true.

Redefining The Bond And Moving Forward

SPEAKER_00 16:48

And with AI, it's it is still a computer, so there is very much the its outputs can only be as good as its inputs. And so, you know, when people get these horrifying scenarios that arise from AI, what it is, to your point, it's been around forever. Neural networks were developed in the 40s. Yeah, I listened to a podcast of Stephen Wolfram the other day, and this stuff has been around forever. What AI is, is statistical probability of what the next word is. Now we just have the infrastructure to process billions and trillions of data points as opposed to hundreds or thousands. So it's much more exact in what is the word that typically follows this word in context of the 40 words that were in front of it. But that's what it is. So it's not thinking, it's not coming up with you know, it's not making things up in the way that that people have this boogeyman in their head.

SPEAKER_01 17:49

No, it's not a brain, it doesn't work like the human brain.

SPEAKER_00 17:52

Yeah, right. So, um, you know, though those are the things that came to mind as as you were talking is yes, we fully intend to implement more robust agentic frameworks so that this thing can train itself. But there is one of the the kind of ethical questions that has come up, which there's been a lot in navigating such a sensitive space, if you will, is we don't necessarily want to make this seem so lifelike that we are potentially deluding people into thinking they're talking to their deceased loved one.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

There we go.

Launch Timeline And Product Evolution

SPEAKER_00 18:33

You know, we there's the the voice, right? And then there's even avatars, and I maybe in the future we go there. This is specifically stayed chat, and it's not really, you know, I've kind of gone away from implementing those things intentionally because that's that slippery slope where we get into more harm than good.

Onboarding, Pace, And Emotional Load

SPEAKER_01 18:57

Right. And like you said, you're you're developing the back end, so you're not you're not creating any prompts to make this AI think about what emotional uh answer to give next. It's not gonna be like it's never gonna give a response of like, I wished we had that time to go to Europe together. That that will never be an answer that comes from the AI to make you feel worse about you know the potential of something that was sitting in your mind that you fed through the questions. You know, that's how you say you're these things are gonna get better. So um, no, I'm a fan. I I definitely am, I or otherwise I wouldn't have you on the show. I'd be one of those super conservative uh uh but no, this is I'm a fan. I see that I see the tool and I love helping people, and this is only gonna help people if you use it. So um, no, this is great. Keep going. This is amazing stuff.

Interactive Journaling In Practice

Grief Beyond Death: Wider Use Cases

A Mission Over Ego

SPEAKER_00 19:44

Yeah, well, something else you got out there was the idea of it's never going to come up with you know something just out of the blue. A lot of what therapy is, is asking the right question. The answers are in here, we have them already, right? And so a good therapist oftentimes, you know, in a in an hour-long session, what do they speak for five minutes and they just kind of they they ask the question and shut up? And then how many times in that hour do you go, huh? You know, I I can't tell you how many times I just simply need to say something out loud, whether it's to the wall or something else. And I go, wow, that what that's not what I meant, or that's not how I felt, or that's not, you know, it just needed to come out. And so we're giving people a safe space to start that conversation with themselves and get comfortable with sharing, even though this is in a virtual environment and there's no, you know, the the other. Side is a computer right now. As you start to flex that muscle more, you become more comfortable with doing it with people, which is ultimately what I have learned in the last year and a half after running for a decade. That's where the healing lives. This is just a mechanism to get you there. And that mechanism can act in different ways. For some people, it's really about flexing that muscle. Some people it's about thought organization. Some people it's just about, you know, starting to actually accept and process the loss, which is what Word and four tasks are. It starts with accepting the loss and then walks you all the way through. The where this really shines is Word's fourth task, is something to the effect of I know I don't have to quote it, but defining what this relationship looks like going forward. Because what we know is while the physical being may not be here anymore, the relationship does not die. And so, how do you carry them with you in a way that allows you to live a fulfilled life, but doesn't have you forgetting? I think that is one of the major, major impediments to people being ready to do the work, as it were, is their fear and their desire not to forget this person that was so important in their life. Right? If they were if they could be assured that moving forward instead of moving, you know, moving on, I don't like that terminology, but moving forward doesn't mean that this person is no longer there, that you have to forget about them, that you, you know, it's just the relationship is is dead as well. And so that realization and that validation and that okay, we're gonna hold your hand through this is powerful.

SPEAKER_01 22:30

Yes, it is. This is fantastic. Good work. How long are you when did you start this? 2023.

SPEAKER_00 22:37

No, uh, I technically launched this in May of this year. Um great. Now, I would say realistically, I launched this in August of this year, and then really in in uh beginning of December is when we made that switch to the journal, the the framework of of structure and and how do we give people you know more um you know, a better place to start.

Knowledge Reduces Fear Of AI

SPEAKER_01 23:03

You know, so you so how does it work? Let's go through this. So somebody listened, they're like, you know what, this is uh this is great. How do we go to guardianangels.ai? Yep, and how do we get started there?

SPEAKER_00 23:17

Well, you know, there's the landing page that kind of walks you through what we are, how we do it, um, you know, use cases, and there's 45 call to action buttons that just say start now. You know, start your first conversation, build your first persona, right? There's a seven-day.

SPEAKER_01 23:36

You answer the questions. As you're answering these questions, it's building the prompt and the profile on the back end for the the the is it conversational AI bot? Is that what it is? Yep, good for the AI bot to do its thing, and then what does that experience look like once it's all set up? How how does that feel, or what do we do once we're in there?

Closing Thanks And What’s Next

SPEAKER_00 23:59

So one thing before we go there, the building of the bot going through these questions, that can be a significant emotional lift. So if people go in there, I would say, unless this is a a loss that you've already had some, you know, done some good work in and accepting, and that might take you three days. That might take you, you know, because that's a trip down memory lane that is getting that's going deep already. And so I wouldn't expect, well, you know, if you were to just fly through them, it's gonna take you 15 to 30 minutes to answer those questions, which is fine. They you can always change them, you can always refine them, you can always make them more specific, the answers more specific later. But the more specific you are, the better the responses are gonna be, right? This is the garbage in, garbage out, or or you know, the the in or outputs are only as good as their inputs thing, right? Yeah, so once you get through it, um you basically you say start chatting. You will be prompted at that point with uh something to the effect of do you want to journal today, or do you just want, or are you not feeling the journaling? And you can either journal at which point it will prompt you with your first prompt, you'll respond, it automatically exports that into a journal that is saved that you can review, that you can export, that you can print, that you can take to therapy, and then you get that feedback and you can have that conversation, right? So, you know, one question might be what is uh, you know, what is one place you've avoided since I've been gone? Right? So you respond to that. I don't go to the museum anymore because that was where we had our first date, whatever, right? And then it's gonna respond to that. And so it's not just this one-way street of journaling, you get to kind of work this stuff out, and it's it's designed as you know, uh, it's your lost loved one combined with a grief therapist. So it's it's designed to ask questions, it's not designed to give answers. If that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 26:28

It does. So it does, yeah. Interactive. I like that. That's a great way to describe it. It's an interactive journaling. Um, because you know, maybe people are thinking the other end of the spectrum here. They're like, well, what's the difference between me just opening up a book and writing what I feel or what I think? Um it's the interaction. There's a reasonable.

SPEAKER_00 26:46

It's gonna prompt you to go deeper on each of those, which is ultimately what's going to get you to the point where you have accepted, you've embraced, you've uh come to terms with what life looks like as you move forward. And that's what we're trying to do.

SPEAKER_01 27:03

It's uh it's great. You're on to something. This is great. I hope we can support you in every way possible. Um, good do we could how do you feel about that? Is that does that cover the does this give it justice or am I or we what else do you want to add to this? But you've answered all my questions, that's why I asked that question at the end. I'm like, what it makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 27:25

I think we've covered you know the product, right? Yeah, how do you how does this thing work and and why would I use it? Um, you know, I guess one thing that has kind of has has come up throughout the process of building this and understanding more about grief and and what it looks like. We I built this specifically for loss of a loved one, right? Grief regarding death. We grieve a hell of a lot more often than the loss of a person close to us. So, you know, whether it is a relationship that ends, um, you know, you lost your job, you um, you know, you haven't, there's there's this thing called ambiguous grief, right? So you have a family member, a friend who's now an addict, and they're not dead, but they're not the same person they were. There's anticipatory grief, uh, where you've got someone who is, you know, in long-term hospice care where you're kind of counting the days and and it's they're not gone yet, but it's just a matter of time.

unknown 28:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:32

There's all you know, you you mourn, or you there's grief around when you get married and you don't have your bachelor life anymore, right? You're not out with the boys all the time.

SPEAKER_01 28:42

That's a good point, too. Kids leave the nest, uh Alzheimer's disease. Um, yeah, you're right.

SPEAKER_00 28:48

Never thought about that. So I left enough flexibility in the the prompt or in the uh in the the form to account for those relationship ones, right? So there's a question in there that says, Am I living or deceased? Why is that? That's so that if you have one of those, you know, I have a friend from high school whose whose brother had a mental break. He hasn't seen him for 10 years. He's not dead, but you know, I who knows. So there's enough flexibility in there, and that's the beauty of AI and in its flexible nature that you can address some of those things. We specifically built it narrowly because if I was to try to boil the ocean on day one, the bottom falls out of this thing and it doesn't help anybody. So if we can realize some of the scale that I think is possible here, realize some of the benefit and and get people on board to a point where it makes sense to go raise, it makes sense to hire a full team, it makes sense to you know to do the whole thing, then I, you know, I I fully believe we tackle each one of those use cases in much more detail. Um so agreed. Agreed. That is um, you know, that's just just a context piece there.

SPEAKER_01 30:06

Yeah. And you come from, you know, you you're doing this as a mission. It's your vision, it's your mission. It's coming from a place of you know truly wanting to help people because you've helped yourself, you know, on this journey and it never really ends. So I stand behind you. I love this. I love this idea. It's only going to get better, which is cool. You're at the you know, you're using this, you're implementing this. It's a tool that's only going to get better. So, yeah, if any listeners are out there and you know someone that's you know grieving, maybe you just pop them a quick email with the link guardianangels.ai, and say, hey, check this out. Because you do a great job on the landing page describing what this is all about and what to expect from it. So it's pretty straightforward, comes from a great place. Uh, good job, John. I think you're off to something really cool, man.

SPEAKER_00 30:49

Thank you. Thank you very much. And you know, if there's anyone listening in the you know, in the mental health space that has input, this isn't about me anymore. You're not gonna catch ego from me. It's already done what it needed to do for me to set me off on my journey. But if you have a use case, I spoke to a counselor yesterday who you know is thinking of people and and different things that he thinks that this could be good for, reach out to me. Um, you know, the I think there's an email linked on the site, but on my socials, you know, there's there's ways to get a hold of me, John at guardianangels.ai. I would love more, you know, more input. I would love to work with people to build this responsibly. You know, one of the I'll kind of say this. One of the major critiques that I get, especially you know, from from very conservative people, typically with a religious background, but not always, is that AI is too powerful. It has the potential to you know replace God, right? I'm a religious person. I that is not how we intend this, but I would say, and what I do say to that is if we believe that AI is coming, and I do, that this train has left the station, would it not be incumbent on us? If not, I would argue a moral imperative to try to do this in the most responsible way that we can. Absolutely to get as much good out of it as we can, instead of just running away with plugging our ears and resigning ourselves to whatever dystopian fate you have in your head.

SPEAKER_01 32:32

Absolutely. This is what if they had podcasts back with uh Edison uh and electricity was coming out, trust me, that was the root of all evil was electricity and then the railroad system and then computers.

SPEAKER_00 32:45

Yeah, I believe the word demonized came from electricity, like at least in its common in its current context.

SPEAKER_01 32:51

Yes, and I I'm pretty sure we use electricity for good up till to this day, but there are people that use it for bad too. I like uh a whole bunch of mining and uh uh black uh what's it called, the black web or whatever. Um there's always a downside, and there's always a people gonna use any tool to their advantage in a negative way that's considered evil people. And you said one thing, you know, uh replace God. If you're truly rooted in your faith, it's impossible. You can't exactly you can't you can't replace God. So yeah, no, you're right. I I think being knowledgeable uh d decreases fear, first of all. And I think people are fearful because they don't want the knowledge, they don't want to know anything about it, or they just want to stay scared about it. So the more you know, it's like with your kids when they're scared about the monsters under the bed, when they're scared about the little the things, and you take some time to give them a little bit of knowledge or insight, the fears go away. Why? Not because there's no monsters under the bed, but because now they know that the probability of that is pretty much zero. So understanding, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:54

Understanding and knowledge that we fear what we don't understand.

SPEAKER_01 33:58

We fear what we just don't understand. And AI is not replacing anything. Uh, as a neuro, a neuroscience background and uh functional neurology and chiropractic. I uh uh you know, the brain, no one's replacing the brain. The brain is the is its own mechanism, and you describe this as a neural uh complex, which is the rest of our body. We have we have nucleus, we have hubs of nuclei all through our body to help the brain communicate faster. And that's what AI is is just hubs. They have no brain, they'll never be able to have a mind of its own until you know, garbage in, garbage out. It's gonna be garbage most of the time. It's never gonna be able to figure it out. It's just gonna be a better and better tool in every aspect that we use it. So I I love that you've used this energy and put it towards this aspect. It's a very, very cool tool, and I think it's all good.

SPEAKER_00 34:48

Awesome. Thank you. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 34:50

Awesome. Thanks for being here. Appreciate your time. Maybe we'll have you back once we get 2.0 out because I know there's gonna be a 2.0, a 3.0, it's only gonna get better and better and better. So that's great.

SPEAKER_00 34:58

Well, I can tell you this, I'm not stopping.

SPEAKER_01 35:01

Uh no, it doesn't sound like a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00 35:03

My limitations are um, hopefully I can bring on some smarter people than I. Yeah. Um to uh to help push this thing even further. Uh that's always the goal, right? I wanted to create a room where somehow I'm the dumbest person in the room. That that sounds awesome.

SPEAKER_01 35:17

That's the best place to be because then it's only up from there. That's awesome. Good stuff. Keep it, keep going.

SPEAKER_00 35:22

Cheers. Thanks. Take care.